DanyelleLeafty Villains are some of my favorite characters. O:) #mglitchat -9:00 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti To start, who comes to mind when you think of a great villain? #mglitchat -9:00 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @rachelgrinti Someone who is a complicated hero (of their own story). #mglitchat -9:01 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @rachelgrinti Does Mrs. Gorf from Sideways Stories from Wayside School count? She did turn kids into apples. ;-) #mglitchat -9:01 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @rachelgrinti the warden in HOLES #mglitchat -9:01 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @rachelgrinti Snape from the Harry Potter series. Characters that walk in the gray area. #mglitchat -9:02 PM Oct 27th, 2011
VonnaCarter @rachelgrinti Mrs. Colter from The Golden Compass #MGlitchat -9:02 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti @rachelnseigel Definitely villainous behavior! #MGlitchat -9:02 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari I would say Solovet in Gregor the Overlander mainly because she is not all terrible - very dimensional. #mglitchat -9:02 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @nicolepoliti @rachelgrinti I second that. He's so incredibly complex! #mglitchat -9:02 PM Oct 27th, 2011
elissacruz There are all kinds of villains. #MGlitchat -9:02 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @rachelnseigel I loved Mrs. Gorf! #mglitchat -9:02 PM Oct 27th, 2011
dianezahler Jadis of Narnia. The wicked Duke in Thurber's The 13 Clocks (for @laurensnyder). #mglitchat -9:02 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari Nature itself in Hatchet is also a great "villain" - I like when adversaries are not necessarily what we'd normally think of #mglitchat -9:03 PM Oct 27th, 2011
VonnaCarter I love villains who occasionally give us a glimpse of their good side. #MGlitchat -9:03 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari @KDuBayGillis YES! The warden is such a fantastic villain - I loved the back story. #mglitchat -9:03 PM Oct 27th, 2011
dianezahler Oops...RT @dianezahler: Jadis of Narnia. The wicked Duke in Thurbers The 13 Clocks (for @laurelsnyder). #mglitchat -9:03 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @jmaschari Yes. I think I read somewhere that stories are always Man vs. something, not necessarily always human. #mglitchat -9:03 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty RT @VonnaCarter: I love villains who occasionally give us a glimpse of their good side. #MGlitchat -9:04 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @elissacruz I enjoy humorous villians. Aries from the Percy Jackson series. #mglitchat -9:04 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti @jmaschari I think that's a key to a really compelling villain, getting to see more of them than their actions against the MC. #MGlitchat -9:04 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari I like when villains are not just evil for the sake of being evil - dimension is important, a basis for their actions. #mglitchat -9:04 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty RT @jmaschari: I like when villains are not just evil for the sake of being evil - dimension is important, a basis for their actions. #mglitchat -9:05 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @jmaschari Definitely makes for a stronger villain. #mglitchat -9:05 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @jmaschari Sometimes stereotypical, cheesy villains r fun 2! Like in Melvin Beederman Superhero. #mglitchat -9:05 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari @rachelgrinti Agree! I read somewhere that as a writer you need to love your villain as you love all of your other characters. #mglitchat -9:05 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @jmaschari Love when evil is goodness twisted, as in so many retold fairytales (Breadcrumbs, etc.). #mglitchat -9:06 PM Oct 27th, 2011
elissacruz I like the villians who keep me guessing...are they villians, or aren't they? #thinkSnape #MGlitchat -9:06 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari @rachelnseigel Yes! I love that kind of exaggerated villain as well - almost cartoonish. #mglitchat -9:06 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @elissacruz He's one of my favorite villains because he's so thoroughly human. #mglitchat -9:07 PM Oct 27th, 2011
JoKnowles @rachelgrinti Snape! :-) I think a compelling villain is one you have doubts about (as in might be good) #mglitchat -9:07 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty Yes! RT @nicolepoliti: @jmaschari Love when evil is goodness twisted, as in so many retold fairytales (Breadcrumbs, etc.). #mglitchat -9:07 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari @nicolepoliti Agree - did you read A Tale Dark and Grimm - some great villains there as well! #mglitchat -9:07 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @jmaschari Mustache twirling, cackling villains. #mglitchat -9:07 PM Oct 27th, 2011
VonnaCarter @elissacruz Agree RT I like the villians who keep me guessing...are they villians, or aren't they? #thinkSnape #MGlitchat #MGlitchat -9:08 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti @JoKnowles Hi Jo! Yes, definitely, & I also loved that he wasn't evil but still not nice to the heroes. #MGlitchat -9:08 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @jmaschari YES, adore A TALE DARK AND GRIMM. #mglitchat -9:08 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel #MGlitchat I love Roald Dahl's villians- which are usually adults. -9:08 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari I think it is important to see that humanity in villains and, as a reader, be able to see some aspect of yourself in them #mglitchat -9:08 PM Oct 27th, 2011
JoKnowles @rachelgrinti Exaclty. He was COMPLEX. :-) #MGlitchat -9:08 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti @rachelnseigel Mrs. Trunchbull! #MGlitchat -9:08 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari @nicolepoliti Always happy to meet a fellow fan of this book :) #mglitchat -9:08 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti “@rachelnseigel: #MGlitchat I love Roald Dahl's villians- which are usually adults.” yes, the Trunchbull! -9:09 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty RT @jmaschari: I think it is important to see that humanity in villains and, as a reader, be able to see some aspect of yourself in them #mglitchat -9:09 PM Oct 27th, 2011
Trirae @elissacruz Totally agree. I love the idea of villain who has reasons to show how messy good and bad are. #MGlitchat -9:09 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @rachelgrinti Yes! Exactly who I was thinking of. #MGlitchat -9:09 PM Oct 27th, 2011
LaurelSnyder I was SUMMONED BY TALK OF KITTENS AND MITTENS! #mglitchat -9:09 PM Oct 27th, 2011
michaelascotto I'm always intrigued by villains who think they are doing the right thing. #mglitchat -9:09 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @jmaschari an exception to human villians, A WRINKLE IN TIME. scary villian and zero humanity. #mglitchat -9:10 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti @michaelascotto Yes, I think most people think they are doing the right thing or can justify their actions. #MGlitchat -9:10 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari @nicolepoliti Yes! And absolutely terrifying for sure. #mglitchat -9:10 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @michaelascotto Especially when they know they're doing wrong, but as a means to a better end. #mglitchat -9:11 PM Oct 27th, 2011
dianezahler @LaurelSnyder A villain's hands should always be as cold as his smile, and almost as cold as his heart. #mglitchat -9:11 PM Oct 27th, 2011
Trirae Although even if the villain is complex and capable of good, a part of suspense is beliving they truly are evil while reading. #MGlitchat -9:11 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @DanyelleLeafty @michaelascotto The Sphinx in Fablehaven, releasing the demons to retrap/control them. #mglitchat -9:12 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari I like a lot of unclear lines in story - the hero has some "villainous" aspects - the villain is not all bad #mglitchat -9:12 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KDuBayGillis Do you think you have to know who the villain is right off the bat or can it change over the course of the story? #mglitchat -9:12 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @nicolepoliti @michaelascotto Perfect example. Villains often = misunderstood hero (in their own eyes.) #mglitchat -9:12 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti “@jmaschari: I like a lot of unclear lines in story - the hero has some "villainous" aspects - the villain is not all bad #mglitchat” YES. -9:12 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KDuBayGillis I think it can change. That whole shades of grey thing a bout good characters. #mglitchat -9:13 PM Oct 27th, 2011
elissacruz @dianezahler @LaurelSnyder Shoot. Now I'm going to have to write a warm-handed villain just to see if it can be done. ;) #MGlitchat -9:13 PM Oct 27th, 2011
LaurelSnyder Master of the villain: John Bellairs. Because they are truly horrible inside. #mglitchat -9:13 PM Oct 27th, 2011
PBWorkshop Totally not MGlit, but isn't Dr. House the ultimate villain you love to hate? #mglitchat -9:13 PM Oct 27th, 2011
ali_cross Hey! I finally made it! #mglitchat -9:13 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti @KDuBayGillis Interesting question -- I think it can change over the course of the story. #MGlitchat -9:13 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @ali_cross Yay! Welcome! #mglitchat -9:13 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari @KDuBayGillis Great question! I do think it can change throughout the story - Suzanne Collins is such a master of this #mglitchat -9:14 PM Oct 27th, 2011
ali_cross @DanyelleLeafty Thank you! Glad I finally made it to one of these! #mglitchat -9:14 PM Oct 27th, 2011
dianezahler @PBWorkshop He's a MC though. Too complex for a villain? #mglitchat -9:14 PM Oct 27th, 2011
ali_cross RT @DanyelleLeafty: @nicolepoliti @michaelascotto Perfect example. Villains often = misunderstood hero (in their own eyes.) #mglitchat Agree -9:14 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @ali_cross You're in for an awesome treat. We're talking villains tonight! #mglitchat -9:14 PM Oct 27th, 2011
elissacruz @KDuBayGillis It can change. Think of Artemis Fowl. He IS the villain at first, but by the end he's the good guy. #MGlitchat -9:14 PM Oct 27th, 2011
Trirae How do you feel about surprise villains? You think they are good all along and then at the last second you learn the truth? #MGlitchat -9:14 PM Oct 27th, 2011
ali_cross @DanyelleLeafty Ooh villains. ;) #mglitchat -9:15 PM Oct 27th, 2011
PBWorkshop @dianezahler probably, but does being an MC rule out being villainous? #mglitchat -9:15 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @Trirae I really those--where my perceptions and story truths are turned upside down. #mglitchat -9:15 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @Trirae That really annoys me- I feel like it's sloppy storytelling- unless there r clues that he/she was a villian b4. #MGlitchat -9:15 PM Oct 27th, 2011
elissacruz @KDuBayGillis And in mysteries, the villain is often shrouded in...er...mystery (at least until the reveal, anyway). #MGlitchat -9:15 PM Oct 27th, 2011
dianezahler Well I don't know! Does it? RT @PBWorkshop: @dianezahler probably, but does being an MC rule out being villainous? #mglitchat -9:15 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @Trirae This...this is what I'm trying to accomplish. Think it will be challenging. #mglitchat -9:16 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @elissacruz I do agree with that. I don't like mysteries that reveal themselves 2 quickly. #MGlitchat -9:16 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari I love in The Giver how the society is the villain and it is Jonas versus a set of ideals #mglitchat -9:16 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @rachelnseigel @Trirae Very good point. It's got to be believable to work. #foreshadowing #mglitchat -9:16 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KristineAsselin I need a good villain in my WIP, hoping to get some ideas! #mglitchat -9:16 PM Oct 27th, 2011
michaelascotto @Trirae I like those, especially if upon re-reading I can see the seeds of villainy planted beforehand #mglitchat -9:16 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti @Trirae I'm easy to fool with that sort of thing, I'm terrible at picking up on things in mysteries. #MGlitchat -9:16 PM Oct 27th, 2011
elissacruz @Trirae This happens in mysteries all the time. #MGlitchat -9:16 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti JOEY PIGZA'S dad. My emotions concerning that guy are too real. #mglitchat -9:16 PM Oct 27th, 2011
ali_cross Dang I'm not seeing some of the tweets ... #foreshadowing #mglitchat -9:16 PM Oct 27th, 2011
PBWorkshop Where do traitors fit into this discussion? The character who you "trust" but then betrays the MC/reader? #mglitchat -9:17 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @rachelgrinti @Trirae Glad to know I'm not the only one. O:) #mglitchat -9:17 PM Oct 27th, 2011
pattyjmchats @ali_cross: @DanyelleLeafty: @nicolepoliti @michaelascotto: Or, a character that makes the MOST bad choices:) IMHO. #mglitchat -9:17 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari @KDuBayGillis In your current WIP Kellie? I am even more intrigued now - that sounds awesome. I know you can pull it off! #mglitchat -9:17 PM Oct 27th, 2011
charbennardo We are all capable of being a villain- and villains are all capable of redemption. #mglitchat -9:17 PM Oct 27th, 2011
Trirae @elissacruz Excelent point #MGlitchat -9:17 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari @nicolepoliti YES! I have awful feelings towards Joey Pigza's dad - probably because he does feel really real. #mglitchat -9:18 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KristineAsselin complexity is good. :) RT @charbennardo: We are all capable of being a villain- and villains are all capable of redemption. #mglitchat -9:18 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @pattyjmchats @ali_cross @nicolepoliti @michaelascotto True. Some stories aren't simple and black and white. #mglitchat -9:18 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @jmaschari Yes, Jen. Oy, if I ever finish it. But that's the goal! #mglitchat -9:18 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty RT @charbennardo: We are all capable of being a villain- and villains are all capable of redemption. #mglitchat -9:18 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @pattyjmchats What about the mothers in these scenerios? Are they villians? #mglitchat -9:18 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KarenninaPosa joining #mglitchat just now. We're talking villains. #mglitchat -9:18 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari The mom in Goodnight Mr. Tom is a heinous villain - she is really awful - I remember her very vividly. #mglitchat -9:19 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti @PBWorkshop I think the traitor is a really interesting kind of villain, esp when it's difficult to follow through with betrayal. #MGlitchat -9:20 PM Oct 27th, 2011
LydiaYKang I like when the line between good vs bad is slightly blurred. It's all about perspective. #mglitchat -9:20 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @nicolepoliti I think the mom villains are the scariest of all--for me. #mglitchat -9:20 PM Oct 27th, 2011
pattyjmchats @charbennardo: I respectfully disagree. I don't think ALL of us are capable of villianess ways. (Def: being crime + wickedness) #mglitchat -9:21 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @rachelgrinti @pbworkshop I love how Rowling had me questioning so many characters and their motivation. #mglitchat -9:21 PM Oct 27th, 2011
ali_cross Okay, NOW I'm in, for realz. #mglitchat #mglitchat -9:21 PM Oct 27th, 2011
TeacherMotherRe @jmaschari Yes! I loved and hated (mostly loved) Goodnight Mr. Tom for the polarizing characters! #mglitchat -9:21 PM Oct 27th, 2011
dianezahler But rare, no? RT @DanyelleLeafty: @nicolepoliti I think the mom villains are the scariest of all--for me. #mglitchat -9:22 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KarenninaPosa @LydiaYKang blurred lines bet. good vs. bad reminds me of Janice Hardy's The Shifter #mglitchat -9:22 PM Oct 27th, 2011
elissacruz I wonder, does every book have a villain of some sort? #MGlitchat -9:22 PM Oct 27th, 2011
ali_cross @LydiaYKang I like that, too. Most of my books have that element in them. #mglitchat #mglitchat -9:22 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari @TeacherMotherRe Yes, I loved loved that book but cried so much through it #mglitchat -9:22 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @dianezahler My area is fairy tales, so mostly moms are either dead or the ones doing the plotting. :S #mglitchat -9:23 PM Oct 27th, 2011
ali_cross oh hey, using tweetchat you don't have to add the tag. coolness :P #mglitchat -9:23 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti Complexity issue seems a big point - many of us mentioned Snape, but Voldemort not as interesting because he's more one note. #MGlitchat -9:23 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KristineAsselin I think so, even if it's subtle. conflict can be villain. RT @elissacruz: I wonder, does every book have a villain of some sort? #mglitchat -9:23 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @elissacruz Depends on how you classify villian. Outright villian no, but has to be someone causing conflict. #MGlitchat -9:23 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KarenninaPosa @elissacruz related to that Q, I think: Is every antagonist a true villain? #mglitchat -9:23 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @rachelgrinti I think he was one note through most of the series, but I was interested in Tom Riddle. #mglitchat -9:23 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @DanyelleLeafty But moms are also the victims, as in OKAY FOR NOW. I couldn't judge her. #mglitchat -9:23 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti @DanyelleLeafty Yes, fairy tale moms are not to be trusted! Always leaving their kids alone in the forest and whatnot. #MGlitchat -9:23 PM Oct 27th, 2011
dianezahler @DanyelleLeafty Same here. I've got 2 dead moms, 2 evil stepmoms, 1 weak and powerless mom. #mglitchat -9:24 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @rachelgrinti Or eating them. O.O #mglitchat -9:24 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @dianezahler *grin* That sounds about right. O:) #mglitchat -9:24 PM Oct 27th, 2011
michaelascotto RT @rachelnseigel: @elissacruz Depends on how you classify villain. Outright villain no, but has to be someone causing conflict. #mglitchat -9:24 PM Oct 27th, 2011
ali_cross @KristineAsselin My latest 1 has a situational villain. While there's a bad guy, he's secondary to the bad situation. #mglitchat -9:24 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari To me the most terrifying villains are the ones in realistic fiction because I could see their evil really happening #mglitchat -9:24 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @rachelgrinti Stepmothers r often evil. :-) #MGlitchat -9:24 PM Oct 27th, 2011
elissacruz @rachelnseigel So, then, if someone is causing conflict, are they technically the villain? Or is villain and conflict separate? #MGlitchat -9:24 PM Oct 27th, 2011
LydiaYKang Do you all think that purely evil villains are too 2-D? Even Voldemort had a horrible childhood... #mglitchat -9:24 PM Oct 27th, 2011
ali_cross @dianezahler LOL #mglitchat -9:24 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @rachelgrinti Voldemorte becamse more human in the final two books, but yes, he was flatter than Snape. All self-love. #mglitchat -9:24 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @dianezahler @DanyelleLeafty Oh those poor moms. #mglitchat -9:24 PM Oct 27th, 2011
Trirae @elissacruz Excllent question. But I think I define it more as something to fight against. In MG, usually external force #mglitchat -9:24 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @rachelnseigel @rachelgrinti That's one of the requirements of being a stepmother, isn't it? O:) #mglitchat -9:24 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @elissacruz villian and conflict are separate in my mind. #MGlitchat -9:25 PM Oct 27th, 2011
TeacherMotherRe @DanyelleLeafty @dianezahler In Napoli's Bound, (mg CInderella story) I hated hated hated the StepMother #mglitchat -9:25 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KristineAsselin Sounds cool! RT @ali_cross: My latest 1 has a situational villain. While theres a bad guy, hes secondary to the bad situation. #mglitchat -9:25 PM Oct 27th, 2011
BA_Watson I like this: RT @KristineAsselin - Conflict can be a villain. #mglitchat -9:25 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @DanyelleLeafty U ever read Poison Apples? Brilliant! #mglitchat -9:25 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @KDuBayGillis Yes. Being a mom in fairy tales never ends well. o.O #mglitchat -9:25 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @rachelnseigel No, but from the title alone, I'm adding it to my list. Thanks! #mglitchat -9:25 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @LydiaYKang Not in the case of WRINKLE IN TIME. #mglitchat -9:25 PM Oct 27th, 2011
dianezahler @KDuBayGillis But you have to think abt why moms in FTs are dead/powerless. It's b/c in real life they are so vital. #mglitchat -9:25 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @TeacherMotherRe I'm going to have to read this. It's wise to never mess with stepmothers. O:) #mglitchat -9:26 PM Oct 27th, 2011
elissacruz @rachelnseigel (For the record, I think I agree. Conflict =/= Villain) #MGlitchat -9:26 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KristineAsselin RT @dianezahler: @KDuBayGillis You have to think abt why moms in FTs are dead/powerless. Its b/c in real life they are so vital. #mglitchat -9:26 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @dianezahler @KDuBayGillis And fairy tales are some of the most powerful metaphors for real life. #mglitchat -9:27 PM Oct 27th, 2011
elissacruz @elissacruz (but Villain always = Conflict) #MGlitchat -9:27 PM Oct 27th, 2011
LydiaYKang @nicolepoliti Yes. IT was pretty awful. And gross! #mglitchat -9:27 PM Oct 27th, 2011
dianezahler @DanyelleLeafty Yes! For something bad to happen to a child, the mother has to be absent. #mglitchat -9:28 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @elissacruz I agree! #MGlitchat -9:28 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford Coming in late, but reading like crazy to catch up--so excited to talk about villains. I love villains so much. #mglitchat -9:28 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @dianezahler Or the one plotting the misfortune. (Which is scarier, in my opinion.) O:) #mglitchat -9:28 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @dianezahler mom 'villians' in STICK, RULES OF SURVIVAL, TOUCHING SNOW. Such powerful books. #mglitchat -9:29 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti @KateMilford Glad you made it, Kate! #MGlitchat -9:29 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @nicolepoliti Mother in Rules of Survival was terrible! #mglitchat -9:29 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty I *love* all the new books I meet through #mglitchat -9:29 PM Oct 27th, 2011
dianezahler @nicolepoliti I'll have to read. Thanks! #mglitchat -9:29 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @DanyelleLeafty I like the way you phrase that. :-) #mglitchat -9:29 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @KateMilford I was about to talk about Limberlegs...your ears must have been burning. #mglitchat -9:29 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari @KateMilford I share your love of villains! #mglitchat -9:29 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelgrinti Wouldn't miss it!! Nice to see you all. #mglitchat -9:30 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @rachelnseigel *grin* Some of my best friends are books. :) #mglitchat -9:30 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @KDuBayGillis No way!! Talk away, I will sit quietly and listen. :) #mglitchat -9:30 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @DanyelleLeafty What's that Groucho Marx quote? Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend? Inside of a book 2 dar 2 read! #mglitchat -9:31 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @rachelnseigel YES! I read it years ago but Nancy Werlin's characters are still in my head. #mglitchat -9:31 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford Although it's hilarious that tonight is villain night. Just wrote a post yesterday about needing to find villain for current wip #mglitchat -9:31 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @DanyelleLeafty I think it's Groucho anyway. #mglitchat -9:31 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty Villains, imo, are the most powerful characters--they determine the tone of the story. #mglitchat -9:31 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @nicolepoliti Pretty unforgettable book. Very haunting. #mglitchat -9:31 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @rachelnseigel *snicker* Yes--on both counts. :D #mglitchat -9:32 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KristineAsselin HaHa, I need one too! RT @KateMilford: Just wrote a post yesterday about needing to find villain for current wip #mglitchat -9:32 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @DanyelleLeafty I think it's almost impossible to have a really strong protag w/o a really strong villain. But I know (1/2) #mglitchat -9:32 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @KateMilford He really messed with characters' minds, and those are the kinds of villains I like -- get in your head. #mglitchat -9:32 PM Oct 27th, 2011
christinesarmel Dashing in late, but I survived parent teacher conferences. Hopefully I wasn't anyone's villain! #MGlitchat -9:33 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @DanyelleLeafty a lot of folks don't like the term villain--but I do. I want deeply realized villain, but I like bad guys. #mglitchat -9:33 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @christinesarmel Yay! Welcome, and glad you could make it! #mglitchat -9:33 PM Oct 27th, 2011
elissacruz So let's talk about non-human villains (aka nature, a haunted house, etc.) What is needed to make these things good villains? #MGlitchat -9:33 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti Has anyone written a story where you started with the villain? As in, came up with the villain first. #MGlitchat -9:33 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @KDuBayGillis I will admit that I fall a little in love with every villain I write. :) #mglitchat -9:33 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @KateMilford The term villain has elegant and delicious connotations. #hanselandgretel #mglitchat -9:34 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @DanyelleLeafty DOESN'T IT?? ;) #mglitchat -9:34 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @KateMilford If it had a scent, it would be gingerbread. >:) #mglitchat -9:35 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti Thinking of Dracula -- he's what you remember, the concept starts with the monster. #MGlitchat -9:35 PM Oct 27th, 2011
LydiaYKang @elissacruz MC vs nature is always a great combo, but sometimes it brings out MC vs self as the villain #mglitchat -9:35 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelgrinti I definitely came up with Jake Limberleg before Natalie. Absolutely. #mglitchat -9:35 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @rachelgrinti For me, the villain is usually the second character I meet. Can't write story until I do though. #mglitchat -9:35 PM Oct 27th, 2011
spacejock #mglitchat I like to think of a villain as a protagonist who lost the coin toss. -9:35 PM Oct 27th, 2011
elissacruz @rachelgrinti I do. But I write mysteries, so often the entire story hinges on a good criminal. #MGlitchat -9:35 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @rachelgrinti Yes! Villain kicked off the idea for my story. But her backstory wants to be "the" story, so I'm fighting w/her. #mglitchat -9:35 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty RT @spacejock: #mglitchat I like to think of a villain as a protagonist who lost the coin toss. -9:36 PM Oct 27th, 2011
Trirae @elissacruz Stating the obvious, but strong and believable personification. Usually done subtly. #mglitchat -9:36 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti @LydiaYKang I think that's true, nature, etc. as villain can pit the MC against their own worst traits. #MGlitchat -9:36 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @DanyelleLeafty Oh, I love that, too... #mglitchat -9:36 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @spacejock Or the one that didn't get to write the history book. O:) #mglitchat -9:36 PM Oct 27th, 2011
spacejock #mglitchat In other words, their story is just as compelling and logical as the protag's. -9:36 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @elissacruz what I love about Yancey's MONSTRUMOLOGIST series... Are the monsters human? Or monster's? Pure delicious horror. #mglitchat -9:36 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @spacejock That's a great way of looking at it. #mglitchat -9:36 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty RT @LydiaYKang: @elissacruz MC vs nature is always a great combo, but sometimes it brings out MC vs self as the villain #mglitchat -9:37 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @LydiaYKang I love those kinds of stories. Makes me think. #mglitchat -9:37 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KarenninaPosa I like this! RT @spacejock: #mglitchat I like to think of a villain as a protagonist who lost the coin toss #mglitchat -9:37 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @spacejock so maybe the other side of the same coin...#mglitchat -9:37 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti Yes, this, too! RT @DanyelleLeafty: @spacejock Or the one that didn't get to write the history book. O:) #mglitchat -9:38 PM Oct 27th, 2011
LydiaYKang Hatchet, by G. Paulsen comes to mind. Boy vs his own demons after a plane crash. #mglitchat -9:38 PM Oct 27th, 2011
jmaschari RT @spacejock: #mglitchat I like to think of a villain as a protagonist who lost the coin toss. -9:39 PM Oct 27th, 2011
spacejock @nicolepoliti It does help to avoid cardboard villains that way. #mglitchat -9:39 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford Forgive me for the shameles go-to-my-blogness. My post from yesterday: TODAY I GO IN SEARCH OF A VILLAIN http://t.co/jBE1gNGN #mglitchat -9:40 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti I love a good political villian. FINNIKIN OF THE ROCK, MISTWOOD, GAME OF THRONES (ok, that's adult) #mglitchat -9:40 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @nicolepoliti Don't forget Conspiracy of Kings. #mglitchat -9:40 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @nicolepoliti I LOVED Mistwood for exactly that reason. Politics vs. loyalty; honor on both sides. @leahcypess is awesome. #mglitchat -9:41 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @nicolepoliti I like the knots political intrigue ties my brains in. Lots of good stuff there. #mglitchat -9:41 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @DanyelleLeafty I do too. It's very thought provoking. #mglitchat -9:42 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KarenninaPosa @elissacruz non-human villains (nature, a haunted house, etc.) must bring out and amplify MC's weaknesses #mglitchat -9:42 PM Oct 27th, 2011
spacejock #mglitchat of course, with MG you don't really have the word length to write multiple, balanced POV characters. -9:42 PM Oct 27th, 2011
paulkellis RT @spacejock: #mglitchat I like to think of a villain as a protagonist who lost the coin toss. -9:42 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @rachelnseigel YES, YES, YES! Love Turner's THIEF series #mglitchat -9:42 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @spacejock I think you can, actually. It's harder, but it's totally doable. #mglitchat -9:42 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @nicolepoliti I do too. I think the publisher has a bit of trouble placing them. I see them as more YA than MG. #mglitchat -9:43 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti @DanyelleLeafty Yes, I love a good scheming political type villain that makes my brain hurt! Not so many of them in MG though. #MGlitchat -9:43 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @rachelgrinti We need to change that. >:) #mglitchat -9:43 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @nicolepoliti @rachelnseigel OMFG agreed. Wish I had a more eloquent reply, but I just love those books. #mglitchat -9:44 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @DanyelleLeafty and talk about complicated. Political villians are always shifting. Keeps me reading. #mglitchat -9:44 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford Sometimes no eloquence is needed when talking about books- just gut feeling. ;-) #mglitchat -9:45 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelgrinti @danyelleleafty The Inquisitor's Apprentice (@sfness) does that well for MG. Political/economic villain. Brilliant. #mglitchat -9:45 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @nicolepoliti Yes! It's an art, saying something without words or using the opposite words as to your intent, etc. *adores* #mglitchat -9:45 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @KateMilford @rachelnseigel Don't worry. We completely understand. So excited for Marchetta's sequels to FINNIKIN! #mglitchat -9:45 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty RT @rachelnseigel: @KateMilford Sometimes no eloquence is needed when talking about books- just gut feeling. ;-) #mglitchat -9:45 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel Thank you. :) Big hugs. Also, I'm in love with Eugenides, big time. #mglitchat -9:45 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @KateMilford Definitely going to add this one to my list. :) #mglitchat -9:46 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @nicolepoliti Me too! I loved Finnikin. Such a great character! Love reluctant heroes. (Perhaps a topic 4 another chat) #mglitchat -9:46 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @nicolepoliti I need to read Finnikin. I'm kind of ashamed that I haven't. #mglitchat -9:46 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford Love how he grows throughout the series. #mglitchat -9:46 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti @KateMilford Who *isn't* in love with Eugenides? #MGlitchat -9:46 PM Oct 27th, 2011
spacejock @KateMilford #mglitchat can really cut into the protag's story though (or double the word count!) -9:47 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel And the fact that we never get his POV after The Thief?? Makes me crazy, in a good/tortured way. #mglitchat -9:47 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford Yes! Absolutely! #mglitchat -9:47 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @KateMilford FINNIKIN is a beast but once you are sucked in, plan on getting no sleep. #mglitchat -9:47 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelgrinti I don't know, but he's at the top of my list of fictional characters I desperately want to kiss before I die. #mglitchat -9:47 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @spacejock @KateMilford Hopefully as people switch to digital, this won't be a problem. #mglitchat -9:47 PM Oct 27th, 2011
spacejock @KateMilford #mglitchat I do write multiple pov in my adult novels, but they're 3x the length. -9:47 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford Er... #mglitchat -9:48 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @nicolepoliti I agree. It took me a bit 2 really get into it, but once I did... #mglitchat -9:48 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford Please disregard that last... #mglitchat -9:48 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford Unless you are Eugenides and you want my phone number. #mglitchat -9:48 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @KateMilford *snork* #mglitchat -9:48 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @spacejock But it can be done in MG. Many of them switch POV with success, either from mc to antag, or with multiple mcs. #mglitchat -9:49 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford @spacejock Avi did alternating points of view in "Never Mind". kind of a he said/she said. Loved that book. #mglitchat -9:50 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @KateMilford @rachelgrinti Hahahaha. Glad i'm not the only one in love with a fictional character! #mglitchat -9:50 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford This is where my juvenile lit bias shows itself, but I think it just requires more economy of text to switch pov for MG. #mglitchat -9:50 PM Oct 27th, 2011
elissacruz Sorry to leave early, but I have to go. See you next week, MG tweeps! #MGlitchat -9:51 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti @KateMilford @spacejock I agree, it can be done. May be tougher with space limitation, but certainly doable. #MGlitchat -9:51 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @nicolepoliti @rachelgrinti OMG Gen, Spike Spiegel, Mal Reynolds, Cohen...I have a list of like 10. WRITTEN DOWN SOMEWHERE. #mglitchat -9:51 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty @elissacruz See you next week. :) #mglitchat -9:51 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty RT @rachelgrinti: @KateMilford @spacejock I agree, it can be done. May be tougher with space limitation, but certainly doable. #MGlitchat -9:51 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @rachelgrinti @KateMilford @spacejock I think we've gotten so used to these tomes that we forget a lot can be done in short book. #MGlitchat -9:51 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty RT @KateMilford: This is where my juvenile lit bias shows itself, but I think it just requires more economy of text to switch pov for MG. #mglitchat -9:52 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @elissacruz Bye, Elissa! Sorry to be late to the party, but AWESOME TOPIC. #mglitchat -9:52 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KarenninaPosa @elissacruz see you next week for another great chat! #mglitchat -9:53 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel Isn't that the truth? I'm not good at short books, but they are the grail. I will know I've mastered the craft... #mglitchat -9:53 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @KateMilford @rachelgrinti wooooow. I haven't made a list yet, but that would be a good blog post. Or better, villians we love! #mglitchat -9:53 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel ...when I can do things in less than 250 pages. #mglitchat -9:53 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford Wrinkle in Time is the perfect example of this. #mglitchat -9:53 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMessner Villains are my favorite characters to write - sorry to be so late for tonight's #mglitchat -9:54 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel Absolutely. Or WHEN YOU REACH ME. #mglitchat -9:54 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford I went through a phase as a kid where I would only read thick books. WEnt through them too fast. #mglitchat -9:54 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti Speaking of short tomes, A LONG WALK TO WATER by Linda Sue Park... Man and nature conspiring against a young boy. #mglitchat -9:54 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford Yes! Also accomplishes a lot ! #mglitchat -9:55 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @nicolepoliti That was a wonderful book. Great 4 lit circles. #mglitchat -9:55 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel I think there's merit to long books, and series--I have no argument with them--but (1/2) #mglitchat -9:55 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel ...the same part of me that wishes I could write poetry wants to be able to write a short, perfect gem. #mglitchat -9:56 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford I know what you mean. I'm very good at long, flowery sentences. Not short & sweet. But then, how many thick books #mglitchat -9:57 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti Did anyone read Heavy Medal's post on overly lengthy middle grade tomes. I ahve to say I agree. Many r way 2 long 4 audience #mglitchat -9:57 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford ...need to be as thick as they are? Many don't. #mglitchat -9:57 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti @nicolepoliti No, but it sounds interesting. Do you have a link? #MGlitchat -9:57 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti “@rachelnseigel: @nicolepoliti That was a wonderful book. Great 4 lit circles. #mglitchat” AGREED. I wish it had received more press. -9:58 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel A lot of books are just as long as they need to be; many aren't. And I'm not the one to say which are which. :) #mglitchat -9:58 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @nicolepoliti This is good to know. (I worry that I'm too sparse with my words!) #mglitchat -9:58 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel I tend toward the flowery. But I'm trying to balance it with economy. #mglitchat -9:58 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford Probably a personal preference. #mglitchat -9:59 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @nicolepoliti I thought that was a fascinating article. But I think a lot of writers simply can't work in a small space. #mglitchat -9:59 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @nicolepoliti Me too! Don't know why it didn't. #mglitchat -9:59 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford They never had profs who took off marks for going over word count! ;-) #mglitchat -9:59 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @nicolepoliti I really do think it's the diff between someone who can manage a poem and someone who can't. #mglitchat -10:00 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @nicolepoliti Also some stories can't be told in 200 pages. Depends. #mglitchat -10:00 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @KateMilford This could be an interesting topic for a future #mglitchat -- length v. economy of words. -10:00 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel Indeed! #mglitchat -10:00 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @KDuBayGillis I learned a lot from learning to write plays and screenplays first. Different emphases: dialogue vs. action #mglitchat -10:01 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti Thanks for a villainous chat tonight! #MGlitchat -10:01 PM Oct 27th, 2011
nicolepoliti @KDuBayGillis i love terse. Readers, esp. Kids, are smart. They don't need constant hand holding :)#mglitchat -10:01 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti @nicolepoliti I totally agree! #MGlitchat -10:02 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti Next week's topic: Computers and Cell Phones and E-Readers, Oh My! Using Technology in MG Fiction #MGlitchat -10:02 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @KDuBayGillis Completely. I think kids will read long books but only if the extra word count is well-used. (define as you please) #mglitchat -10:02 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelnseigel @nicolepoliti @KDuBayGillis Do you think there is more of a tendency to tell now because movie potential is in mind? #mglitchat -10:03 PM Oct 27th, 2011
DanyelleLeafty RT @KateMilford: @KDuBayGillis Completely. I think kids will read long books but only if the extra word count is well-used. (define as you please) #mglitchat -10:03 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @nicolepoliti I write PBs. Have to leave room for illustrators. I feel that way with MG -- kids' minds can illustrate details. #mglitchat -10:03 PM Oct 27th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel No--telling isn't the same as writing cinematically. #mglitchat -10:04 PM Oct 27th, 2011
rachelgrinti Cutting the transcript here, but enjoying the economy of words discussion. :) #MGlitchat -10:04 PM Oct 27th, 2011
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