KDuBayGillis Hi MG folks! Welcome to this week's #mglitchat with me and my co-host, @elissacruz! -6:59 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WendyMartinArt @elissacruz So it would seem. #kidlitart #MGlitchat -6:59 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KDuBayGillis This week's topic: violence in MG. To get things started, let's discuss the type of violence that we see in MG. #mglitchat -7:00 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin Hi everyone! #mglitchat -7:00 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin I think generally MG violence tends to be far fetched. Not so much realistic. #mglitchat -7:01 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin But it always amazes me to see realistic violence or murders in MG. #mglitchat -7:02 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @KristineAsselin Want to give us an example of what you see? #mglitchat -7:02 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz I think the most common is comic violence, like spitballs. Or dodgeball. #MGlitchat -7:02 PM Oct 20th, 2011
michaelascotto Any realistic violence tends to be mild. Though I remember seeing a nose get broken in Hiassen's "Hoot" #mglitchat -7:02 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz Dodgeball is BRUTAL in MG. Go figure. ;) #MGlitchat -7:02 PM Oct 20th, 2011
christinesarmel #mglitchat So happy I made it. The first thing that springs to mind is old-time fairy tales. Violence galore. -7:02 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop Everything from historical fiction (authentic) to fantasy (Tale Dark and Grim)? #mglitchat -7:03 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress Yep - we see a lot of this: RT @elissacruz: I think the most common is comic violence, like spitballs. Or dodgeball. #mglitchat -7:03 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford Are we drawing distinctions between violence and general meanness? #mglitchat -7:03 PM Oct 20th, 2011
deegarretson I've got violent death in first book from helicopter crash, but it's of people MC doesn't know, so somewhat removed #mglitchat -7:04 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @KateMilford I think we want to look at the spectrum. #mglitchat -7:04 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @PBWorkshop Tale Dark and Grimm was quite bloody. I was a bit concerned about putting it in my MG collection. #mglitchat -7:04 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop @WaldenPondPress Side note- Breadcrumbs is by my side- should I chat or start reading? Ambivalent! #mglitchat -7:04 PM Oct 20th, 2011
VonnaCarter Fantasy MG often has a lot of battles. #MGlitchat -7:05 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel But definitely MG! Such a good book to illustrate good use of goriness for kids. #mglitchat -7:05 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @VonnaCarter Like in Harry Potter. #MGlitchat -7:05 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress We see violence in MG as better tolerated by gate-keepers than other items that can age up a book: language, sexuality, etc. #mglitchat -7:05 PM Oct 20th, 2011
dianezahler @christinesarmel I'm big on evil spells and spontaneous combustion. Not so much blood. #mglitchat -7:05 PM Oct 20th, 2011
LaurelSnyder Oh, interesting topic. I think that generally, MG is squeamish. #mglitchat -7:05 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt What about fantasy? Need some sort of epic battles, even in MG #mglitchat -7:05 PM Oct 20th, 2011
deegarretson @rachelnseigel I haven't read that, actual decription of blood and gore? #mglitchat -7:05 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop @rachelnseigel But are we talking 8-10yo MG or 10-12yo? #mglitchat -7:05 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford That was the advice I was given so I'll see what h appens with it. Our teachers can be very concervative. #mglitchat -7:06 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford Another book with very well-used violence is @jonathanauxier's PETER NIMBLE. Book is so charming you kinda don't notice... #mglitchat -7:06 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @KateMilford @rachelnseigel It definitely made my stomach turn. Not a book I'd give to faint of heart. #mglitchat -7:06 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @PBWorkshop I consider it a 10+ personally. #mglitchat -7:06 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford ...how much awful stuff is happening. The stakes are HIGH. #mglitchat -7:06 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress @PBWorkshop - Lovely! Well, we may be a little bit biased, so we'll be fair and say #mglitchat only happens once a week :) #mglitchat -7:06 PM Oct 20th, 2011
LaurelSnyder @WaldenPondPress This bothers me as a parent I think. #mglitchat -7:06 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @deegarretson Yes. There were head's being chopped off, and a lot of descriptive Gore. #mglitchat -7:06 PM Oct 20th, 2011
christinesarmel #mglitchat Squeamish is a great word. Like hearing the gun shot off stage, but not seeing the blood. -7:06 PM Oct 20th, 2011
VonnaCarter @rachelnseigel And especially animal fantasies, like The Warriors and Guardian's of Ga'Hoole #MGlitchat -7:06 PM Oct 20th, 2011
LaurelSnyder Dahl has violence, and we accept it. #mglitchat -7:07 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @KateMilford Reading now...haven't hit the violence yet. #mglitchat -7:07 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KDuBayGillis True, though probably up the alley of many 11-year-olds. #mglitchat -7:07 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel It's interesting--kids seem to love all the narrator's warnings about what's coming up. Prepares them. #mglitchat -7:07 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford True.. #mglitchat -7:07 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford But I have to admit, I'm biased. I think kids can take it--it's the parents that are squeamish. #mglitchat -7:07 PM Oct 20th, 2011
dianezahler @LaurelSnyder And as a kid I loved it - evil aunts squished by peach, evil kids stretched and turned blue. #mglitchat -7:07 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop @KateMilford Absolutely- and they can "skip on" if squeamish. #mglitchat -7:07 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress @LaurelSnyder - I think it's because people are so de-sensitized #mglitchat -7:08 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz I think the realistic-ness (is that a word?) of violence is prevalent more the higher the MG target audience is. #MGlitchat -7:08 PM Oct 20th, 2011
LaurelSnyder ALso, we can handle violence in historical, sometimes. War stories, illness, etc. #mglitchat -7:08 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford I agree with you. It's adults who are more sensitive to it than kids. I wouldn't have been bothered as a kid. #mglitchat -7:08 PM Oct 20th, 2011
michaelascotto @LaurelSnyder In a lot of his work it's a sort of cartoonish violence. Kids getting swung by the hair in Matilda and soforth #mglitchat -7:08 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford But that's assuming it's relevant, justified violence, not overly graphic or gratuitous. #mglitchat -7:08 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt It's tough, b/c no one wants to expose kids unnecessarily to violence, but many young readers encounter violence in daily life #mglitchat -7:08 PM Oct 20th, 2011
BookaliciousPam Look at Gaiman, both Odd and the Frost Giant and The Graveyard book had harsh themes. I think kids can handle it and want to. #mglitchat -7:08 PM Oct 20th, 2011
LaurelSnyder @elissacruz Well, or the violence defines it as such. #mglitchat -7:08 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop Back to the HF question- when the issues are "real" even if in the past? What about Chains? #mglitchat -7:08 PM Oct 20th, 2011
JoWhittemore There's also a lot of simply mentioning violence, exaggerated for humorous effect. The threat alone can be enough. #mglitchat -7:08 PM Oct 20th, 2011
ArgyleSweatrClb RT @KateMilford: But that's assuming it's relevant, justified violence, not overly graphic or gratuitous. #mglitchat -7:08 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @dianezahler @LaurelSnyder Great point. Is violence easier to accept when we don't like or don't care about the character? #mglitchat -7:08 PM Oct 20th, 2011
LaurelSnyder @michaelascotto Right, but that's his genius. If James' parents had been hit by a car it would have been different. #mglitchat -7:09 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @LaurelSnyder Maybe we handle violence in war stories because it's accepted that war stories are supposed to be violent. #mglitchat -7:09 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz @LaurelSnyder True. #MGlitchat -7:09 PM Oct 20th, 2011
christinesarmel #mglitchat Do you think violence is more accepted (especially if it's fuzzy around the edges) than other "edgy" topics? -7:09 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PatEsden I think kids have faith that the end will be good, so they aren't as frightend by nasty stuff. #MGlitchat -7:09 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel I think kids always believe/know the stakes are high. #mglitchat -7:09 PM Oct 20th, 2011
LaurelSnyder I think often, MG uses exaggeration for humor, when treating violence. #mglitchat -7:09 PM Oct 20th, 2011
michaelascotto @BookaliciousPam Just finished Graveyard Book...one of the best opening lines I've ever read! #mglitchat -7:09 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin @KDuBayGillis I loved Jonathan Auxier's PETER NIMBLE. It did have some gruesome violence--but it was more fantastic, not real. #mglitchat -7:09 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @PatEsden Yes!! And I think that's an important thing--there needs to be hope. Kids can deal with violence if the message is... #mglitchat -7:10 PM Oct 20th, 2011
LaurelSnyder Interesting to think about how this extends to comic books, for the same age range. #mglitchat -7:10 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @PatEsden ...that they can overcome it. #mglitchat -7:10 PM Oct 20th, 2011
BookaliciousPam @michaelascotto I agree! #mglitchat -7:10 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford We just began our Ontario reading programs, and the book I think will be most popular with grade 7/8 is very gritty.#mglitchat -7:10 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin Yes! RT @KateMilford: Another book with very well-used violence is @jonathanauxiers PETER NIMBLE. #mglitchat -7:10 PM Oct 20th, 2011
michaelascotto @LaurelSnyder Oh, I wasn't saying it critically...I think it's brilliantly handled :) He really threads the needle #mglitchat -7:10 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop And how about Gaiman's Graveyard Book. Can't get much more vivid than that! #mglitchat -7:10 PM Oct 20th, 2011
deegarretson nice thing about most MG! @PatEsden I think kids have faith that the end will be good so they aren't as frightend by nasty stuff. #mglitchat -7:10 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @KristineAsselin The fact that the violence happens to ravens and sparrows somehow softens it...at least for a minute. :) #mglitchat -7:11 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @PBWorkshop I do remember that first chapter being quite disturbing. #mglitchat -7:11 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt So maybe there's a place for thoughtful violence that helps kids engage with injustice? #mglitchat -7:11 PM Oct 20th, 2011
_TimothyPower The Benedict Society books are sooo violent at times they made me cringe. #MGlitchat -7:11 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin In MG, is the violence usually to a good end? #mglitchat -7:11 PM Oct 20th, 2011
BookaliciousPam A lot of fantasy MG has deceased parents, that is the most scary thing for a child, I think... they handle that. #mglitchat -7:11 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford I got interesting feedback from a tween beta-reader on my next book. None of the violence done by the bad guy bothered her, but.. #mglitchat -7:11 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @_TimothyPower Really? I only read the first one. Maybe I'm desensitized. #MGlitchat -7:11 PM Oct 20th, 2011
_TimothyPower And it's a matter of tone. James's parents being eaten by a rogue rhino is violent and funny. #MGlitchat -7:12 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress There are some semi-violent scenes (although not graphic or gory) in The Fourth Stall. For most people, this was tolerable (1/2) #mglitchat -7:12 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @marissaburt I had a book of the original Grimm as a kid. Never bothered me. #mglitchat -7:12 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress But they appreciated knowing about it before giving the book to kids. I believe it also aged the book a bit (2/2). #mglitchat -7:12 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford There is a violent instance btwn 2 adults who should know better but get carried away by irrationality & that freaked her out. #mglitchat -7:12 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock Do you think video games have led to an increase of violence in MG fiction? #mglitchat -7:13 PM Oct 20th, 2011
LaurelSnyder @BookaliciousPam But almost always in the past. Book usually opens and it has already happened. #mglitchat -7:13 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop Once read first 2 chapters of a book to 5th grd'ers, (sports story) and asked where it should go from there. they said dad dies! #mglitchat -7:13 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin If it's clear that the bad guy gets his comeuppance, does it make the violence more palatable. Good v. Evil, and so forth? #mglitchat -7:13 PM Oct 20th, 2011
deegarretson @_TimothyPower what bothers me most is adults being deliberately cruel to kids when it's not obviously over-the-top like Snicket #mglitchat -7:13 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock E.g. our youngest daughter has been playing Oblivion/Morrowind/etc since she was 10 or 11 #mglitchat -7:13 PM Oct 20th, 2011
BookaliciousPam @spacejock Do you think there is an increase? I haven't seen one really. #mglitchat -7:13 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford That was really eye-opening to me. She could handle a villain carving people up (offstage), but not adults making wrong choices. #mglitchat -7:13 PM Oct 20th, 2011
dianezahler @rachelnseigel Some of those original grimms are horrific. We tend to tone them down when retelling. #mglitchat -7:13 PM Oct 20th, 2011
_TimothyPower Grimm's freaked me out as a kid but I loved it. Cinderella's stepsister cutting off her toes to fit the glass slipper...argh! #MGlitchat -7:13 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KristineAsselin Ever read the book "Another One of those books where the mother dies?" Loved the title. #mglitchat -7:13 PM Oct 20th, 2011
ArgyleSweatrClb RT @KateMilford: There is a violent instance btwn 2 adults who should know better but get carried away by irrationality & that freaked her out. #mglitchat -7:13 PM Oct 20th, 2011
michaelascotto Re-read Series of Unfort. Events 1 recently...the only violence that truly bothered me in that book was the boy being hit by Olaf #mglitchat -7:14 PM Oct 20th, 2011
ArgyleSweatrClb RT @KateMilford: That was really eye-opening to me. She could handle a villain carving people up (offstage), but not adults making wrong choices. #mglitchat -7:14 PM Oct 20th, 2011
_TimothyPower @deegarretson I agree! #MGlitchat -7:14 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock @BookaliciousPam I'm talking over decades, not very recent. #mglitchat E.g. home computers really hit in mid-80's but very basic -7:14 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin @rachelnseigel I haven't--I'll have to look for that one! #mglitchat -7:14 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @dianezahler It amazes me now that I read them, but I didn't have a kids version. Of course, I was never scared ofa nything. #mglitchat -7:14 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @LaurelSnyder @BookaliciousPam I think off-screen violence would be easer for the younger MG reader. #mglitchat -7:14 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelgrinti @KateMilford That's an interesting reaction! I can see that. Trusted adults acting that way scarier than the villain doing so. #MGlitchat -7:14 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @KristineAsselin I think so. But I think that we also need books that help kids who might not see the "happy ending" #mglitchat -7:14 PM Oct 20th, 2011
BookaliciousPam I read my daughter the original fairy tales from the day she was born. She was entranced. Never once got scared or upset. #mglitchat -7:14 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @_TimothyPower There's an instance of foot-binding in my current book, too. That also freaked this reader out a little. #mglitchat -7:15 PM Oct 20th, 2011
VonnaCarter @spacejock Probably, but so have movies like Star Wars. even little kids have seen those #MGlitchat -7:15 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock @BookaliciousPam #mglitchat really graphic games probably '94-'95 and later. -7:15 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @marissaburt Really great book I read once- character learned that not all endings are happy. Sometimes they are just endings. #mglitchat -7:15 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @KristineAsselin @swdooley's BODY OF WATER does this with the issues of homelessness (not so much violent, but a "grownup" topic) #mglitchat -7:15 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelgrinti Yeah. The adults who read it were like, whoa, didn't see that coming. The kids flipped out. #mglitchat -7:15 PM Oct 20th, 2011
BookaliciousPam @spacejock Ah, okay, yes I agree with that. Media has changed though as well. #mglitchat -7:15 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock @VonnaCarter Star Wars not the same as Saw or Evil Dead or other gruesome stuff some kids now watching #mglitchat -7:16 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel Another great thing about Gidwitz's GRIMM was when the narrator asked, why do these things have to happen (1/2) #mglitchat -7:16 PM Oct 20th, 2011
_TimothyPower Kids like disgusting and gory, but I don't think they like cruelty at all. #MGlitchat -7:16 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @rachelnseigel Oooh, what book? #mglitchat -7:16 PM Oct 20th, 2011
JoWhittemore Violence in a story can hinge on the mental maturity of characters. If the MC had to grow up quick, he can tolerate more #MGlitchat -7:17 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KDuBayGillis Two other types of violence I haven't yet heard: self-inflicted and animal cruelty. #mglitchat -7:17 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel and then answered with, I don't know. I thought that was so brave and brilliant and true. (2/2) #mglitchat -7:17 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford Yes- very important question to address with kids. #mglitchat -7:17 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin I think kids can handle intense topics, but are there "rules" for handling the violence at this level? around the MC or others? #mglitchat -7:17 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KDuBayGillis I can't stand animal violence. #mglitchat -7:17 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress Yep, there is a difference here: RT @_TimothyPower: Kids like disgusting and gory, but I dont think they like cruelty at all. #mglitchat -7:17 PM Oct 20th, 2011
michaelascotto RT @_TimothyPower: Kids like disgusting and gory, but I dont think they like cruelty at all. #mglitchat -7:17 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock #mglitchat What I mean is, if MG kids are accessing violence in movies and games, do authors feel they need violence to sell books? -7:17 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @marissaburt Called Ellen Fremdon by Joan Givner. She was looking for happy endings and realized sometimes therea ren't any. #mglitchat -7:17 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz @KristineAsselin Yes, what she said. How much violence is too much? #MGlitchat -7:17 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @_TimothyPower Cruelty is scary--it's not rational. Kids can understand causality & most villains are rational in their way. #mglitchat -7:18 PM Oct 20th, 2011
K_L_Gore RT @WaldenPondPress: Yep, there is a difference here: RT @_TimothyPower: Kids like disgusting and gory, but I dont think they like cruelty at all. #mglitchat -7:18 PM Oct 20th, 2011
LaurelSnyder @michaelascotto To back this up: people objected to a scene in my book ANy Which Wall, where an animal had been hurt. #mglitchat -7:18 PM Oct 20th, 2011
deegarretson @KDuBayGillis animal cruelty would be too much, unless trying to protray a really evil, sick character, couldn't write it myself #mglitchat -7:18 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress @KDuBayGillis - I think self-inflicted violence tends to age a book into the YA realm more than others. #mglitchat -7:18 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz @spacejock There are all kinds of readers and all kinds of books. Violence doesn't have to be in ALL titles, imo. #MGlitchat -7:18 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock #mglitchat Is there also an attitude that written violence is okay because it's not visual? Must be pictured and filtered by reader? -7:18 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @spacejock I think in MG it's emphatically not about selling books. Never, never, never. I don't think. #mglitchat -7:19 PM Oct 20th, 2011
deegarretson @deegarretson my typing is making it look like I can't spell tonight, sorry, very tired. #mglitchat -7:19 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @spacejock I don't think so.Putting violence in to sell books? Blech. #mglitchat -7:19 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @deegarretson Also depends. Didn't like idea of pulling wings off bugs, but wasn't horrified by it like a dog or cat for eg. #mglitchat -7:19 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @spacejock But putting violence in b/c the world is cruel & violent and kids know that? Different. #mglitchat -7:19 PM Oct 20th, 2011
JAScribbles I wish more middle grade authors offered the reading level in their book description or on jacket. Not age - reading level #mglitchat -7:19 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @spacejock But I do think kids know if you're pulling your punches. #mglitchat -7:19 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock #mglitchat E.g. was listening to podcast of an MG chapter with zombie getting crossbow bolt in the head. Try putting that in an MG movie. -7:19 PM Oct 20th, 2011
_TimothyPower @KateMilford Yes! Methodical villains are the only way to go. #MGlitchat -7:20 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin Because of the violence, I hesitated at letting my DD read HP 4 (Goblet) for a long time, when she finally read it she was fine. #mglitchat -7:20 PM Oct 20th, 2011
shergraham49 RT @JoWhittemore: Violence in a story can hinge on the mental maturity of characters. If the MC had to grow up quick, he can tolerate more #MGlitchat -7:20 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @JAScribbles I think that's a great idea. I try to always highlight that aspect of a book in my blog. I want to know. #mglitchat -7:20 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @JAScribbles I wouldn't have the first clue how to describe reading levels. :/ #mglitchat -7:20 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KristineAsselin I know what you mean. When a series grows increasingly violent, and kids are young, it's a fine line. #mglitchat -7:20 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz @KristineAsselin As a aside, I do think HP 4 and up should be classified as YA. They even may be. I dunno. #MGlitchat -7:20 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @_TimothyPower And btw, I like a true, dyed in the wool villain a lot, but you have to understand why they're doing it. #mglitchat -7:21 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin @spacejock visual v. written? Not sure it matters--you can go into a lot more gory detail when it's written. #mglitchat -7:21 PM Oct 20th, 2011
_TimothyPower @deegarretson F. Scott Fitzgerald was a horrible speller, and look how far he got! #MGlitchat -7:21 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock #mglitchat Don't get me wrong, I write non-violent MG. Just wondering if I've turned up at the wrong dance! (Or decade) -7:21 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @spacejock I think this is true in general with books vs. movies. Very diff. to see it portrayed on screen vs. imagination. #mglitchat -7:21 PM Oct 20th, 2011
dianezahler @JAScribbles B&N put a lexile on mine -- but that only helps if you know how it translates. #mglitchat -7:21 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @elissacruz @KristineAsselin That creates hell for shelving them in a store/library, though they really are. #MGlitchat -7:21 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin @elissacruz Actually, I agree. Even though my 8-year-old has them all memorized. :) #mglitchat -7:21 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock @JAScribbles #mglitchat isn't reading level very subjective? Does 'independent', 'confident', etc cover it? -7:21 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @spacejock There's also a difference btwn what flies in a mg book and what flies in a mg movie. I know this from experience 1/2 #mglitchat -7:22 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @spacejock @JAScribbles I'd say no. Reading level according to difficulty vs content level different. #mglitchat -7:22 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz @spacejock You know, I thought this when I started writing (too many) years ago. I've learned to not follow the (violent) crowd. #MGlitchat -7:22 PM Oct 20th, 2011
_TimothyPower Violence as a means to inject excitement into a story should be the last resort, IMO. #MGlitchat -7:22 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop @spacejock IMO, there is room in MG for every taste/approach. read 3 MG this week- no violence, but each compelling/excellent. #mglitchat -7:22 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt And is violence okay when it's against the baddies? How to give a proper end to a villain in MG? #mglitchat -7:22 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @spacejock Hemingway is written at a grade 3 level. Wouldn't give that to an 8 year old though. #mglitchat -7:23 PM Oct 20th, 2011
deegarretson @marissaburt @spacejock true about movies-remember reading LOTR movies got away with violence by making the bad guys' blood black #mglitchat -7:23 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @spacejock If I told you the film directors who turned The Boneshaker down for being too scary, you'd call me a liar. :) 2/2 #mglitchat -7:23 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock @rachelnseigel @JAScribbles #mglitchat Just wondering how you'd rate a book for reading level. Concepts/worduse/etc? -7:23 PM Oct 20th, 2011
paczemoj @spacejock Maybe it's a shortcut: because kids have seen violence, authors can more easily tap into those images. And do. #mglitchat -7:23 PM Oct 20th, 2011
geceosan RT @WaldenPondPress: Yep, there is a difference here: RT @_TimothyPower: Kids like disgusting and gory, but I dont think they like cruelty at all. #mglitchat -7:23 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop @spacejock Reading level is not the issue- it's maturity/life experience. #mglitchat -7:23 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin I think the violence really needs to work with the story--if it does, you have a lot of leeway. #mglitchat -7:23 PM Oct 20th, 2011
theroseinbloom RT @WaldenPondPress: Yep, there is a difference here: RT @_TimothyPower: Kids like disgusting and gory, but I dont think they like cruelty at all. #mglitchat -7:24 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @rachelnseigel @spacejock @JAScribbles I agree. Reading at an advanced level does not = maturity to deal w/more advanced issues. #mglitchat -7:24 PM Oct 20th, 2011
dianezahler @marissaburt Burn them up, have them eaten by giant eel-like monsters...lots of latitude with fairy tales. #mglitchat -7:24 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford Also, don't forget, violence hinted at but not seen can be tremendously potent. Or stating the bare bones. #mglitchat -7:24 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @spacejock @JAScribbles There are several methods. I go by spacing, page count, illustrations to start. #mglitchat -7:24 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford Doesn't need to be gory and bloody to be effective. Especially in MG. #mglitchat -7:25 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock #mglitchat comeuppance is important though. (publishers/readers) want a boss battle and a victory. Yes? -7:25 PM Oct 20th, 2011
ArgyleSweatrClb RT @KateMilford: Also, don't forget, violence hinted at but not seen can be tremendously potent. Or stating the bare bones. #mglitchat -7:25 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @spacejock @JAScribbles Some teachers suggest 5 finger rule- open 2 random page, raise finger for every word kid doesn't know. #mglitchat -7:25 PM Oct 20th, 2011
ArgyleSweatrClb RT @KateMilford: Doesn't need to be gory and bloody to be effective. Especially in MG. #mglitchat -7:25 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @spacejock @JAScribbles More than 5, probably too hard. #mglitchat -7:25 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelgrinti Yes, imagination very effective. RT @KateMilford: Doesn't need to be gory and bloody to be effective. Especially in MG. #mglitchat -7:25 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress @_TimothyPower - Also meant to mention - quite a few MG books do tackle cruelty in meaningful, rich ways. #mglitchat -7:25 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @dianezahler I agree - fairty tales have a wider wiggle-room. #mglitchat -7:25 PM Oct 20th, 2011
Mrs_Laf In MG, the violence has to serve a purpose - can't be gratuitous. The action should be redemptive in the end, I think. #Mglitchat -7:25 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford And there is a lot of truth to when people say kids will gloss over what they aren't ready for. Treat some things delicately? #mglitchat -7:26 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @rachelgrinti @KateMilford Blood and Gore not necessary but some darkness good- ie. Roald Dahl. #mglitchat -7:26 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin True! RT @rachelnseigel: @elissacruz @KristineAsselin That creates hell for shelving them in a store/library, though they are. #mglitchat -7:26 PM Oct 20th, 2011
_TimothyPower Violent threats not carried out can be v. enjoyable. "I'll get you, my pretty, and your little dog too!" #MGlitchat -7:26 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rhondasaunders Releasing tree frogs into the ocean. Animal cruelty? Depends on intention? #mglitchat -7:26 PM Oct 20th, 2011
ArgyleSweatrClb RT @KateMilford: And there is a lot of truth to when people say kids will gloss over what they aren't ready for. Treat some things delicately? #mglitchat -7:26 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress @KateMilford Agree - if they're not ready for it, they will move past it, maybe read the book again when they are. #mglitchat -7:26 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford Another tale from tween beta-reader trenches. Character with the bound feet I mentioned earlier? In scene where she describes 1/2 #mglitchat -7:27 PM Oct 20th, 2011
_TimothyPower @WaldenPondPress Can you suggest a few titles? Thanks! #MGlitchat -7:27 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz @WaldenPondPress YES. Kate DiCamillo's Tale of Despereaux comes to mind. Poor Mig. #MGlitchat -7:27 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KristineAsselin @elissacruz I moved my Skulldugery Pleasant books to 12+ Got to b very YA. But 1st book wasn't. #mglitchat -7:27 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford ...describes the foot binding, if you read closely, you're told where she was living when her feet were bound. MUCH WORSE REVEAL #mglitchat -7:27 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PatEsden What about The Underneath it has a great deal of human and animal cruelty? #MGlitchat -7:28 PM Oct 20th, 2011
ArgyleSweatrClb RT @KateMilford: Another tale from tween beta-reader trenches. Character with the bound feet I mentioned earlier? In scene where she describes 1/2 #mglitchat -7:28 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford ...but NONE of the tween readers caught onto that. All of them focused on the binding. But parents got it, older teens got it. #mglitchat -7:28 PM Oct 20th, 2011
ArgyleSweatrClb RT @KateMilford: ...describes the foot binding, if you read closely, you're told where she was living when her feet were bound. MUCH WORSE REVEAL #mglitchat -7:28 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @rachelnseigel Thanks for this. Sounds intriguing. #mglitchat -7:28 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @PatEsden That's true. And while the adults I know loved it, I couldn't sell it to kids. #MGlitchat -7:28 PM Oct 20th, 2011
VonnaCarter @PatEsden And in Plain Kate the cruelty was severe, too. #MGlitchat -7:29 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin It seems like violence is more prevalent in fantasy MG than realistic. True? #mglitchat -7:29 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop How tame is Series of Unfortunate Incidents in comparison to today's titles? #mglitchat -7:29 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @deegarretson @spacejock Yes! And I think non-human fantastical baddies are the most likely to receive violence in MG! poor orcs #mglitchat -7:29 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @marissaburt There were two or three of them. Published by @GroundwoodBooks . Used 1st one in book club 4 9 and 11yr olds. #mglitchat -7:29 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @KateMilford When does it come out b/c I can't wait! #mglitchat -7:29 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @KristineAsselin I think it is more frightening in realistic fiction. Not a judgment--but it's easier to pull off in fantasy. #mglitchat -7:29 PM Oct 20th, 2011
igirlpower RT @KateMilford: Also, don't forget, violence hinted at but not seen can be tremendously potent. Or stating the bare bones. #mglitchat -7:30 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress The first two that come to mind: True...Sort Of and Waiting for Normal, also the Joey Pigza series, and even Okay for Now #mglitchat -7:30 PM Oct 20th, 2011
VonnaCarter @KristineAsselin I think so. Fantasy makes the violence feel safer; kids know this won't happen to them. #MGlitchat -7:30 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @KDuBayGillis :) September 2012. DM coming to you, though. #mglitchat -7:30 PM Oct 20th, 2011
deegarretson @VonnaCarter I tried to read that to my ten-year-old. She said she wanted me to stop, #mglitchat -7:30 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @PBWorkshop #mglitchat They seemed so tame really. -7:30 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @KristineAsselin I think so. I wonder what it would look like to tackle real life violence (e.g. child abuse) sensitively in MG? #mglitchat -7:30 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz @KristineAsselin I think so. That's probably because, yanno, it's fantasy, so therefore it's not as realistic by nature. #MGlitchat -7:30 PM Oct 20th, 2011
deegarretson @marissaburt LOL! I've never seen the phrase "poor orcs" before. #mglitchat -7:30 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress Yep! RT @elissacruz: @WaldenPondPress YES. Kate DiCamillos Tale of Despereaux comes to mind. Poor Mig. #mglitchat -7:31 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress @_TimothyPower The first two that come to mind: True...Sort Of and Waiting for Normal, also the Joey Pigza series, & Okay for Now #mglitchat -7:31 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelgrinti @KristineAsselin Definitely more battles & sword stabbings. Agree w/ everyone who said there is more distance from it. #MGlitchat -7:31 PM Oct 20th, 2011
VonnaCarter @deegarretson The writing was beautiful, but the story was harsh. #MGlitchat -7:32 PM Oct 20th, 2011
christinesarmel @KDuBayGillis Animal cruelty would be a tough one unless it's the antagonist and touched on very lightly #mglitchat -7:32 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @deegarretson Probably a good thing - ha! #mglitchat -7:32 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress @_TimothyPower @elissacruz - Speaking of mice - what about Young Fredle? His family throw him out of the nest to certain death. #mglitchat -7:32 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @marissaburt I imagine the way a kid would sense that kind of thing--in glimpses, impressions, unconfirmed suspicions. #mglitchat -7:32 PM Oct 20th, 2011
igirlpower @_TimothyPower Just joining here... why do we assume that kids who are older than 12 are interested in sex/violence? #mglitchat -7:32 PM Oct 20th, 2011
deegarretson @VonnaCarter I agree, I've noticed it's now being listed as YA in some places. #mglitchat -7:32 PM Oct 20th, 2011
dianezahler @JAScribbles But so easy to manipulate -- measures vocab & sentence length, not ideas & plot. #mglitchat -7:33 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt What about MG that deal w/real life violence in appropriate ways (e.g. child abuse?)how to connect to kids in the midst of it? #mglitchat -7:33 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop Animal cruelty hinted in A Dog's Purpose, but that has been rewritten for MG. Haven't read the MG version yet. #mglitchat -7:33 PM Oct 20th, 2011
ArgyleSweatrClb RT @KateMilford: ...but NONE of the tween readers caught onto that. All of them focused on the binding. But parents got it, older teens got it. #mglitchat -7:33 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @igirlpower REBECCA! Welcome! Caution--not sure that by violence, we mean to include sex necessarily. #mglitchat -7:33 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz @igirlpower I don't think all are, and that's a huge problem if YA tips too far that way. I wouldn't know, though. I'm a MG gal. #MGlitchat -7:33 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @dianezahler @JAScribbles Ideas and plot need a totally separate rating. I consider these when choosing where to shelve. #mglitchat -7:34 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @igirlpower I am so glad you found this chat, though. #mglitchat -7:34 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin Possible, but more difficult. RT @marissaburt: I wonder what it would look like to tackle real life violence sensitively in MG? #mglitchat -7:34 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @igirlpower When I talk about violence in MG, I'm talking more about the fact that I'm perfectly willing to kill characters. #mglitchat -7:35 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin LOL. RT @elissacruz: I think so. Thats probably because, yanno, its fantasy, so therefore its not as realistic by nature. #mglitchat -7:35 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz @igirlpower (I'm the self-proclaimed MG revolutionary leader, you know.) ;( #MGlitchat -7:35 PM Oct 20th, 2011
dianezahler No electronic rating system for them yet! MT @rachelnseigel:@JAScribbles Ideas and plot need a totally separate rating. #mglitchat -7:36 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock @JAScribbles Ah, you mean the auto-generated reading levels? Good point. Wonder if ebook sellers will incorporate them? #mglitchat -7:36 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @dianezahler @JAScribbles We should rate them the same way we do movies and graphic novels. #mglitchat -7:36 PM Oct 20th, 2011
igirlpower @KateMilford Me 2! :) I'm fascinated by the degree of difficulty of books vs. the degree of social maturity. #mglitchat -7:36 PM Oct 20th, 2011
_TimothyPower @elissacruz @igirlpower The MG Mafia godmother! #MGlitchat -7:37 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KDuBayGillis @KristineAsselin @marissaburt I tried this in a WIP (dad hitting son). Made CP uncomfortable. Offscreen might work. #mglitchat -7:37 PM Oct 20th, 2011
dianezahler @rachelnseigel That would mean lots of violence is fine, any sex is verboten, no? Don't think I'd agree with that. #mglitchat -7:37 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin @KDuBayGillis Good point. Off screen v. on screen. @marissburt #mglitchat -7:37 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz @_TimothyPower That makes me sound so old. lol #MGlitchat -7:38 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @igirlpower Yes! And you do tween book clubs--do you find that kids are more able to handle violence (broadly speaking) than... #mglitchat -7:38 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @dianezahler @dianezahler #mglitchat G rated movies don't have a lot of violence. #mglitchat -7:38 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @rachelnseigel @dianezahler @JAScribbles As a parent, I see this as helpful. As a writer, I see how one might feel pigeonholed. #mglitchat -7:38 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @igirlpower ...than adults think they are? When it's RELEVANT, non-gratuitous violence? Or implied scariness? #mglitchat -7:38 PM Oct 20th, 2011
igirlpower @elissacruz :) Hello! I'm the tween-revolution founder! Out to empower girls everywhere... with SMART books, products, services #MGlitchat -7:39 PM Oct 20th, 2011
_TimothyPower @elissacruz Not old...just wise. :-) #MGlitchat -7:39 PM Oct 20th, 2011
dianezahler @rachelnseigel It's PG & PG-13 that gets complicated, I think. #mglitchat -7:39 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @marissaburt @dianezahler @JAScribbles #mglitchat Good point about writers. Dayle E. Bayse says of his Heck series... he wrote them and -7:39 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz You know, I think the threat of violence works just as well in MG. Especially toward the lower age-range. #MGlitchat -7:39 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @KDuBayGillis @KristineAsselin Yes. I could see that. I think reading it - on or off screen - would make me uncomfortable, too. #mglitchat -7:39 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @marissaburt @dianezahler @JAScribbles let the publisher decide what age they were for. ;-) #mglitchat -7:39 PM Oct 20th, 2011
_TimothyPower I only have a problem with human against human violence, really. Explosions, etc. are fine with me! #MGlitchat -7:39 PM Oct 20th, 2011
deegarretson when we are talking violence, probably should specify-accidental, deliberate cruelty, necessary to survive, all different #mglitchat -7:39 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @KDuBayGillis @KristineAsselin But still important to figure out a way to tell these stories. #mglitchat -7:40 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford BTW @igirlpower facilitates @itwixie, which is a safe social media environment for tweens. #mglitchat -7:40 PM Oct 20th, 2011
Mrs_Laf Sometimes, violence serves an important psychological purpose. If done well, kids can gain a sense of survival & redemption. #Mglitchat -7:40 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop RT @marissaburt: @KDuBayGillis @KristineAsselin But still important to figure out a way to tell these stories. #mglitchat -7:40 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @dianezahler We don't do that in Canada. It's PG- 12+ and AA which is 14+ unaccompanied. and then R is 17+. #mglitchat -7:40 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford Hence my delight that she showed up here. :) #mglitchat -7:40 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz @igirlpower Nice to meet you! And YOU GO GIRL! I'm all for sharing the MG wealth. Maybe not the power, though. ;) #justkidding #MGlitchat -7:40 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rhondasaunders RT @elissacruz: You know, I think the threat of violence works just as well in MG. Especially toward the lower age-range. #mglitchat -7:40 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @dianezahler But I struggle with the 12+ YA or 14+ YA and figuring out which is which. #mglitchat -7:40 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop RT @deegarretson: when we are talking violence, specify-accidental, deliberate cruelty, necessary to survive, all different #mglitchat -7:41 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress RT @Mrs_Laf: Sometimes, violence serves an important psychological purpose. If done well, kids can gain a sense of survival & redemption. #Mglitchat -7:41 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz @_TimothyPower Excuse my while I snort my orange juice everywhere. #mewise?#thatsfunny #MGlitchat -7:41 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel In the bookstore where I work, we did break it up into MG, Tweens, & YA. Sometimes hard to make the call, though. #mglitchat -7:41 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @Mrs_Laf Yes. And I think the satisfaction of having baddies defeated (maybe violently?) is psychologically important. #mglitchat -7:42 PM Oct 20th, 2011
dianezahler @rachelnseigel Best just to read everything and decide case-by-case...if you have infinite time. #mglitchat -7:42 PM Oct 20th, 2011
_TimothyPower @elissacruz Sounds like a violent reaction! #MGlitchat -7:42 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford That's what I do- I have 4 fiction sects. It's the 10+ or 12+ and 12+ or 14+ that are hard. I read a lot of revie ws #mglitchat -7:42 PM Oct 20th, 2011
yaytime @rachelnseigel A G-rated movies like Planet of the Apes in the 60's had way more violence than they would get away with now. #MGlitchat -7:42 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz @_TimothyPower Da-da-dum! ;) #MGlitchat -7:43 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @dianezahler Don't I wish! But I do a lot of research on what people who have read them say about them to determine age. #mglitchat -7:43 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @yaytime things have changed a lot! #MGlitchat -7:44 PM Oct 20th, 2011
Mrs_Laf @marissaburt Absolutely. Sometimes, the only place a kid gets to have a feeling of control is when positioned as hero in a book. #Mglitchat -7:44 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz @_TimothyPower (or is that bah-duh-dum? I'm not so good at imitating a drum set.) #MGlitchat -7:44 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @rachelnseigel It is really hard! Especially when you have limited space, & when kids at age, say, 11, can be so very different. #mglitchat -7:45 PM Oct 20th, 2011
TracyEWymer Half my sixth grade class has read the fourth stall. They love it. #mglitchat -7:45 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz So, my question: what is an absolute no-no in MG when it comes to violence? #MGlitchat -7:45 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @TracyEWymer Our biggest audience for Hunger Games is Grade 6/7. #mglitchat -7:45 PM Oct 20th, 2011
TracyEWymer As does their teacher #mglitchat -7:46 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt RT @Mrs_Laf: @marissaburt Absolutely. Sometimes, the only place a kid gets to have a feeling of control is when positioned as hero in a book. #Mglitchat -7:46 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop @rachelnseigel I can't tell you how many adults are reading Hunger Games and then sharing with other adults. #MGLitchat -7:46 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @Mrs_Laf Well said. #mglitchat -7:46 PM Oct 20th, 2011
kellypolark @TracyEWymer I loved The Fourth Stall too! #mglitchat -7:46 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KateMilford That's kind of why I have a 12-14.- I put a lot of the Upper MG there. I try to make my 14+ the really edgy. #mglitchat -7:46 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @elissacruz This is just me but when I'm writing MG I don't like protag to be forced to act violently or be on the receiving end. #mglitchat -7:46 PM Oct 20th, 2011
igirlpower @igirlpower @itwixie We see girls love violence/fighting/war scenes to serve the story; justice; a great battle, good v evil #MGlitchat -7:46 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @PBWorkshop I bet! I see numerous adults reading Harry Potter and Twilight now too. #MGLitchat -7:47 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @elissacruz That's tough. Suicide? Sexual violence/molestation? (unfortunately) come to mind? #mglitchat -7:47 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @elissacruz Mind you, I LOVE THE HUNGER GAMES passionately--might be tweens who can handle it but I'd shelve that in YA. #mglitchat -7:47 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin I'm not embarrassed at all at being an adult who loves YA and MG for fun. #mglitchat -7:48 PM Oct 20th, 2011
TracyEWymer I'd say killing someone or severely injuring them is a no no. #mglitchat -7:48 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford RT @itwixie We see girls love violence/fighting/war scenes to serve the story; justice; a great battle, good v evil. #mglitchat -7:48 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress @elissacruz I think when you have true violation and humiliation; torture; sexual violence; self-harm #mglitchat -7:48 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @KristineAsselin Me neither. I read them for work, but I never consider it work! Glad 4 the excuse! ;-) #mglitchat -7:48 PM Oct 20th, 2011
kellypolark Me 2 & I pass the books on2 my mom Rt @KristineAsselin I'm not embarrassed at all at being an adult who loves YA and MG for fun. #mglitchat -7:50 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop Brings me back to ??? What about HF? It happens! RT @TracyEWymer: I'd say killing /severely injuring them is a no no. #mglitchat -7:50 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @WaldenPondPress @elissacruz Of course, the trouble is, kids who are experiencing/doing these things can be young. #mglitchat -7:50 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @KristineAsselin Amen. #mglitchat -7:50 PM Oct 20th, 2011
igirlpower @KateMilford good vs. evil/justice/hate vs. caring... u know, big themes... use violence well and not be gratuitous, yes? #mglitchat -7:50 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KDuBayGillis I think anything is fair game, it all depends on the execution. Pun intended. #mglitchat -7:50 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelgrinti @TracyEWymer Do you mean the MC doing this, or any characters? (Though I think either can work in MG depending how it's written) #MGlitchat -7:51 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @rachelnseigel @WaldenPondPress @elissacruzSomeone mentioned earlier maybe dealing with real life violence off screen works in MG #mglitchat -7:51 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin It all depends on the telling. RT @KDuBayGillis: I think anything is fair game, it all depends on the execution. Pun intended. #mglitchat -7:51 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @igirlpower Yes. I think it's ok for a reader to know the stakes are high, because that's reality, but writer can be delicate. #mglitchat -7:51 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @marissaburt @WaldenPondPress @elissacruzSomeo Yes. I don't think we have to put it all out there in graphic detail 4 kids. #mglitchat -7:51 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress @rachelnseigel @elissacruz - I completely agree - but some of those issues can be very difficult to tackle in a true MG book #mglitchat -7:52 PM Oct 20th, 2011
JAScribbles #mglitchat ? For all - if u haven't determined the reading level of ur book how do u know u haven't greatly over/under shot your audience? -7:52 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @WaldenPondPress @elissacruz It can, and I know I wouldn't be able to sell it, which is sad cause someone might need it. #mglitchat -7:52 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @igirlpower Also, a writer who's really on his/her game can invoke the violence without spelling it all out. #mglitchat -7:52 PM Oct 20th, 2011
jmaschari Just popping in to say hello! Too much school work tonight to join in. :/ Looking forward to reading the archived chat. #mglitchat -7:53 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress @rachelnseigel @elissacruz @marissaburt - Subtlety can work, but the line is so thin sometimes, it's a tough position. #mglitchat -7:53 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @JAScribbles I think an editor helps with that. #mglitchat -7:53 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford RT @igirlpower: good vs. evil/justice/hate vs. caring... u know, big themes... use violence well and not be gratuitous, yes? #mglitchat -7:53 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz And I wonder if some can get away with more violence by making it humorous in some way. Like cartoon violence? #MGlitchat -7:53 PM Oct 20th, 2011
Mrs_Laf Implied violence can be as powerful as explicit.Trust kids to put it together in a way that makes sense to them but doesn't harm. #Mglitchat -7:54 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @JAScribbles I think you have to know, roughly, if you're writing MG or YA, for sure. #mglitchat -7:54 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock @JAScribbles #mglitchat there's a linux commandline tool (style) which generates all the reading levels from a given text file. -7:54 PM Oct 20th, 2011
deegarretson @JAScribbles do you mean reading level in terms of vocabulary or content? #mglitchat -7:54 PM Oct 20th, 2011
jodyfeldman @JAScribbles I think it starts with knowing who you want your intended reader to be. Write then if it skews differently, adjust. #mglitchat -7:54 PM Oct 20th, 2011
igirlpower RT @KateMilford: @igirlpower Also, a writer who's really on his/her game can invoke the violence without spelling it all out. #mglitchat -7:54 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @elissacruz Cartoon violence seems to be more acceptable because it's a cartoon. Look at original loony Toons. #MGlitchat -7:54 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock @JAScribbles #mglitchat just ran it on mine but don't know what they mean ;-) e.g. Kincaid: 3.5 Flesch Index: 88.9/100 -7:55 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop @JAScribbles Not abt words/spacing, think target age- speak their language. If story needs experienced reader, write that way! #MGLitchat -7:55 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @spacejock @JAScribbles 3.5 means partway through grade 3, child should b capable of reading it.. #mglitchat -7:56 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @WaldenPondPress @rachelnseigel @elissacruz Yes & I think fantasy is an option - hero fighting the dragons in an empowering way. #mglitchat -7:56 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @spacejock I love Linux, but yeah, that's incomprehensible to me. :) #mglitchat -7:56 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock @KateMilford #mglitchat At the command line you just type style followed by the filename of the text file you want to scan. -7:57 PM Oct 20th, 2011
yaytime @rachelnseigel @elissacruz I actually prefer violence to have real world repercussions rather than abstract cartoon violence. #MGlitchat -7:57 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @marissaburt @WaldenPondPress @elissacruz Dealing with violence in an empowering way is ok. #mglitchat -7:57 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop @spacejock There are 13yo kids who need age content but read 3.5- aim your story at the reader, not their "level" #mglitchat -7:57 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz Before everyone heads off, for those not on it and want to be, I've been compiling a list of MG Twitter people. Let me know. #MGlitchat -7:58 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KateMilford @yaytime That's a GREAT point. #mglitchat -7:58 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop @elissacruz Where's the list posted? #mglitchat -7:58 PM Oct 20th, 2011
igirlpower RT @marissaburt: @WaldenPondPress @rachelnseigel @elissacruz Yes & I think fantasy is an option - hero fighting the dragons in an empowering way. #mglitchat -7:59 PM Oct 20th, 2011
kellypolark Some of my fave characters were killed in HPotter. Lightning Thief has violence. In fantasy, I think violence is more acceptable. #mglitchat -7:59 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KDuBayGillis Just a quick reminder, transcript will go up at http://t.co/DBrFO2i8 for tonight's chat. (Thanks @elissacruz!) #mglitchat -7:59 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelnseigel @yaytime @elissacruz #Mglitchat I don't like cartoon violence- I think it trivializes it. -7:59 PM Oct 20th, 2011
rachelgrinti @yaytime Yes, I agree! I prefer that to cartoon-type. Real repercussions are awesome. #MGlitchat -7:59 PM Oct 20th, 2011
jodyfeldman @elissacruz And where would you like us to let you know? Or did I just do that :-) #mglitchat -7:59 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PBWorkshop Thanks for great chat! Off to start reading Breadcrumbs! #mglitchat -8:00 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz @PBWorkshop Oops. Forgot the link: http://t.co/0Mlq8R4I #MGlitchat -8:00 PM Oct 20th, 2011
igirlpower @marissaburt @elissacruz Sexual conflict is confusing, makes even teenage readers uncomfortable... seems simply inapporpriate. #MGlitchat -8:00 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin RT @kellypolark fave characters killed in HPotter. Lightning Thief has violence. In fantasy, I think violence is more acceptable. #mglitchat -8:00 PM Oct 20th, 2011
elissacruz @jodyfeldman Er, yeah. I meant, let me know here and I'll add you to the list. #brainnotworkingtonight #MGlitchat -8:00 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress @marissaburt @rachelnseigel @elissacruz - Yes, empowerment is definitely key #mglitchat -8:01 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt @elissacruz Yes, please. Thanks! #mglitchat -8:01 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress @PBWorkshop Happy reading!! #mglitchat -8:01 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin @elissacruz Me too! Thanks! #mglitchat -8:01 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KristineAsselin Good chat, night all! #mglitchat -8:01 PM Oct 20th, 2011
deegarretson @elissacruz please add me! thanks. #mglitchat -8:01 PM Oct 20th, 2011
Mrs_Laf @igirlpower not sure what you mean by conflict. Misfits was an awfully powerful book, for instance... #Mglitchat -8:01 PM Oct 20th, 2011
PatEsden Thanks for the great chat. Off to get some writing done. #MGlitchat -8:02 PM Oct 20th, 2011
Mrs_Laf @elissacruz sounds good. Thanks! #Mglitchat -8:02 PM Oct 20th, 2011
marissaburt Thanks everyone! Lots to think about after joining my first #mglitchat -8:02 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock @elissacruz Happy to be added too. #mglitchat -8:03 PM Oct 20th, 2011
VonnaCarter Good night, everyone. Fun chat! #MGlitchat -8:03 PM Oct 20th, 2011
KDuBayGillis Thanks everyone for a great chat! Internet sloooow for me tonight. Threatened to beat it during #mglitchat on violence. Didn't work. -8:03 PM Oct 20th, 2011
spacejock Me too RT: @PatEsden: Thanks for the great chat. Off to get some writing done. #MGlitchat -8:03 PM Oct 20th, 2011
WaldenPondPress Thanks for another wonderful chat! Have a lovely evening! #mglitchat -8:03 PM Oct 20th, 2011
jodyfeldman @elissacruz Happens to the best of us #brainnotworkingtonight #mglitchat -8:05 PM Oct 20th, 2011
igirlpower Thank you for welcoming me, too! Fab chat. Love your work. #MGlitchat -8:05 PM Oct 20th, 2011
TracyEWymer @WaldenPondPress you too. #mglitchat -8:05 PM Oct 20th, 2011
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